Coach to Sprinter: "I want you to lower your arm stroke to bring your knees up"

[rich121]

My daughters sprint coach (she runs 100m/200m/400m) wants her to lower her arm swing and says in doing so it will bring up her knees...I explained to him in an email, that it would effect her power/stride and included a Tom Tellez video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIty_...yer_detailpage

Today at practice, the Head coach repeated this...that she needs to lower her arms and it will bring up her knees... the arm swing they are looking for is what xc runners use, ...more of a back and forth swing, not chin and pocket as my daughter has been taught for the past 4 years...
The Head coach and Sprint coach are also the Head coach and assistant coach for xc, track is more or less an extention of the xc season.

Her arm swing is not perfect, she has been working on her arm mechanics over the past few years, but I don't think it is anything that would require radical change either.
She is now age 14 and a Freshman in High School.

Here is a video of her running her 1st open 400m this year, a couple weeks ago, she is in lane #6:

http://youtu.be/UmpdarbY04s

When I picked her up after practice today, she said the sprint coach kept asking her "Who's your coach?" over and over...she said she didn't get what he meant. I'm assuming he didn't like my email too much...guess I'm just going to have to talk with him in person.

Am I just confused and missing something?

Your thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[speedz]

Looks like a case of "nothing broke, why fix it?"

I'm not much of a believer that everyone needs to run with the same style and mechanics. If you have to think about how you're running, you probably won't be going as fast. If posture is good and the foot is striking below the hip, there's not a lot more needed. I also would say that knee "lift" is more of a byproduct of putting force into the track, sort of bouncing up there instead of pulling up there -- and arms don't control that; they just balance that action. Arms rise to correspond with higher knee lift. The faster you go, the likelier the arms are to drive higher. Lowering the arms is what distance runners do -- but they don't do it to change their stride; it's just a result of putting less force into the track than sprinters IMO.

[rich121]

This is especially confusing why they are addressing this at the END of the season, while her 100m/200m speed has slowed consistantly up to now.
Her 1st 400m on April 7 was:
1:01.17

Her second 400m on April 26 was:
1:00.70

Her 400m time gets better, while her 100m/200m time is consistantly getting worse...

Except..this past Saturday...she ran a 1:02.82 400m...

This is because the Tuesday before, she had the Flu and missed school/practice, then on Thursday 26, it was a "League" meet, so they ran her in the:

4 x 100m
400m
200m
4 x 400m

She said her legs were gone after running the 400m and she did not do well her last 2 events obviously.

Then, only 2 days later for the last meet on Saturday, she just didn't have enough time to recover.
She said she didn't feel her "normal" energetic and excited self before running the 400m Saturday... she said she just didn't have much energy or stamina.

Each week they normally run her:

4 x 100m
100m or 200m
4 x 400m

Some of the arm action in the past few meets I believe has alot to do with fatigue.

Here is a video from the April 26 (lane #5):

http://youtu.be/k5mw9Il-cX0

Here is one from Saturday (lane #6):

http://youtu.be/TssVkQdUMPU

[martijn]

One thing to keep in mind is that Tellez is discussing top speed mechanics with maximum range of motion in hips and arms.
That's not how your run a 400, especially young girls for whom the 400 is almost a middle distance event.

[rich121]

If you look at the videos, her thumb does not reach near her face, her arms are lower than when sprinting the 100m/200m and in the video, her arm swing range is generally the same as most the other runners...
Also, most coaches I have read or talked to recommend on the last 100m of the 400 to over emphasize arm swing and knee lift as this will be needed because of fatigue, as the arms and knee lift won't be getting enough movement.

[spike]

Rich121 if you are so worried about how your daughter is being coached can't you remove her from her current situation and either have her coached elsewhere or coach her yourself. I am just not sure what it is you after from this forum as from what you have relayed to us the coach is going to coach in his style regardless of what your input is.

[a-j]

In theory.....

.......the coach is right!!!!

Watching your vid, the arms do appear a little locked round the elbow IMO

The idea of 'opening' the arm I'd done so to allow a greater leverage and indeed greater rom to be used.....
Mostly taught for coming out of the blocks....

However, type in you tube...
Usain bolt top speed mechanics (for some stupid reason my iPad won't link) you will see what I presume the coach trying to explain but you can visually

Hope that helps

[T-Slow]

I remember being curious about this coach's arm cues earlier on, as I think her elbows are coming too far back. Focusing on driving the arms down should clear this up. Spike, if you don't like a dad taking an interest in his kid's coaching, don't answer his questions.

Rich121 if you are so worried about how your daughter is being coached can't you remove her from her current situation and either have her coached elsewhere or coach her yourself. I am just not sure what it is you after from this forum as from what you have relayed to us the coach is going to coach in
his style regardless of what your input is.

[rich121]

That is also what we have been working on in the past...I would tell her it almost looks as if your driving your arms up, think of pounding pegs into the ground with your hands, and we have also talked about her arm back/side motion...

I may have misunderstood..

Anyone know of a good video that would help my daughter understand this. as she doesn't seem to understand when I explain to her?

[rich121]

Here is a much better "side view" showing her arm mechanics.
She is running the 4th leg of an exciting 4 x 400m relay a couple weeks ago...she is wearing blue/white one piece uniform...great finish, just ahead of the poor girl who did the faceplant while crossing the finish line.

http://youtu.be/pqysyTfYaJM